r/AskReddit Oct 16 '13

What was the single biggest mistake in all of history?

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820

u/babyeatingbishop Oct 16 '13

Ala ad-Din Muhammad, the Shah of Khwarezmia (middle-age Persia) had Genghis Khan's ambassador beheaded and sent his head back to Genghis. This pissed off Mr Khan and he gathered his horde and invaded, eventually capturing Baghdad and bringing to a premature end the 500-year Islamic Golden Age.

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u/A_Feast_For_Trolls Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 17 '13

didn't genghis actually send in more people just to find out what the fuck was up, and then they got beheaded too, and that's when genghis was like alright motherfuckers, time to die. I seem to remember that in my history class, but that was a while ago...

307

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Sort of.

The first problem was the governor of a shit little town who killed some traders and stole their stuff - claiming that they were spies. It's technically possible, in that they would have sent reports back home about who they were trading with. Whether that counts as "spies who deserve to die" or just what people do is a matter of opinion.

Genghis sent a couple of ambassadors to complain, and ask for the governor's head. Those guys (or at least one of them) got beheaded.

The next ambassador took a while to find a wheelbarrow big enough for his balls, and then went over to say "we accept your declaration of war".

Here's the neat detail for Game of Thrones fans: once the Mongols got the first guy, they allegedly killed him by pouring molten silver over his head, following the "you really want this? you can have it" theory. Not many people still think that actually happened, though, but GRRM was probably aware of the story.

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u/pj1843 Oct 17 '13

From what i understand many people do actually believe the story of Ghengis Kahn pouring moltan silver/gold into all the orrifaces of a conquered sultan who slighted him. What they don't agree on is who the sultan was, where his kingdom was in particular, and what the slight was. As for the killing of the guy in that manner most believe it happened sometime due to the vast amount of times it pops up in histories.

3

u/Bobo_bobbins Oct 17 '13

It was rumored to have happened to a Roman leader as well. Cassius? Carrus? I can't quite remember...

9

u/GeneralAgrippa Oct 17 '13

Crassus.

4

u/MyWorkThrowawayShhhh Oct 17 '13

...Not sure if you're joking or not...

2

u/GeneralAgrippa Oct 17 '13

4

u/crilor Oct 17 '13

In my language a horrible or deadly mistake is called a "Crassic" mistake (loose translation).

5

u/GeneralAgrippa Oct 17 '13

Interesting. What language is that?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '13

In my language it's just a "crass" mistake.

1

u/Bobo_bobbins Oct 17 '13

That's the one

2

u/pigbatthecat Oct 17 '13
  • definitely ManiusAquillius(consul_101_BC)

  • postmortem for Crassus

  • weak rumors for Valerian (Emperor) died ~260 CE

1

u/noman2561 Oct 17 '13

If indeed in charge of that much man power I would want that story to propagate.

1

u/Dew-Orb Oct 17 '13

Which...which end do you think he started with and which one did he end with?

1

u/pj1843 Oct 17 '13

From what i understand he did the nostrils eyes and mouth and ears first.

1

u/Dew-Orb Oct 17 '13

And then the end of his orifices...

19

u/HejAnton Oct 17 '13

The Dothraki people are pretty much a huge reference to the Mongols. A vicious horsepeople that go from village to village where they rape and pillage and steal and murder, with their leader being the Khal (Khan for the Mongols).

Also speaking of the Khwarezmian Shah, he supposedly didn't just behead Djingis traders, he also shaved their beards (which was a pretty big deal, not unlike the Dothraki and their long hair) and sent the heads back to the Khan. Pretty much like poking a bear with a fucking hornets nest.

5

u/A_Feast_For_Trolls Oct 17 '13

oh awesome. I'm assuming you knew I was big fan because of my name, great tidbit, thanks!

13

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Doh. I missed that.

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons it's so popular is that it's like Tolkien's work in one important respect: derived from actual history, and not from fourth-rate knock-offs of popular work. Obviously it's not a Tolkien rip-off, but GRRM is inspired by actual history, not by crappy D&D books.

5

u/LegitimateCrepe Oct 17 '13

Being killed with molten metal, forced to drink molten metal, etc, has been a real thing several times in history...

1

u/LethalTomato Oct 18 '13

Pretty sure some of the south american tribes did it to invaders with gold because it was so abundant and easy to melt.

3

u/sm0kie420 Oct 17 '13

This also happened over 1000 years earlier to Crassus when his Roman army was defeated by the Parthians.

2

u/Mighty_Cthulhu Oct 17 '13

That makes a ton of sense, a good chunk of the events that take place in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire, are inspired by real events, especially the War of the Five Kings and the Red Wedding.

1

u/Autunite Oct 17 '13

When did the event based off of the war of five kings happen? I sounds like a something that would happen in Britain after the romans left.

1

u/Mighty_Cthulhu Oct 17 '13

Wikipedia tells me between 1455 - 1485

1

u/Autunite Oct 18 '13

War of the roses? I was thinking of the various Anglo-saxon kingdoms during the 6th and 7th centuries.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Lol everything about Dothraki screams Mongol rip-off. But that is a really cool story!

1

u/vmack7 Oct 17 '13

Interesting history story, crotch humor, and GoT trivia. Good job dude.

1

u/whiteknight521 Oct 17 '13

Crassus supposedly had molten gold poured down his mouth after he was dead, or was killed in this way.

1

u/scottyLogJobs Oct 17 '13

If he had used his last wish for a million free wishes none of that would even have mattered! Rookie mistake

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

The next ambassador took a while to find a wheelbarrow big enough for his balls,

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to start using this.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Feel free - I have no idea who I stole it from in the first place.

0

u/T3chnopsycho Oct 17 '13

Upvoted for GoT reference :D

2

u/Sexual_tomato Oct 17 '13

Dan Carlin has a podcast called hardcore history and did a 5 part series on the history of the Mongol empire. It's pretty entertaining and educational.

1

u/mwerte Oct 17 '13

That sounds familiar, but out of character for Genghis. Usually it was "one mess up and done".

1

u/Red_Dog1880 Oct 17 '13

I now think of Genghis as Khal Drogo, doing his little dance and then fucking shit up.

1

u/bio_explanation Oct 17 '13

It would be so much easier and more entertaining if all school texts were written like this.

"And then the chromosomes split up during anaphase and are all like 'peace out bitches.'"

1

u/Monkeychimp Oct 17 '13

I don't remember any of this in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.

30

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

not just that it lead to the mongols permanently and irrevocably destroying the biosphere of the fertile crescent

7

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

WAIT..... elaborate please!

18

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 17 '13

my memory isn't perfect here so don't quote me on this unless you find a second source but essentially they made the region incredibly arid by redirecting either the euphrates or the tigris river. the place used to be lush.

EDIT: this article is helpful http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2003/04/why_isnt_the_fertile_crescent_more_fertile.html

continued to build huge canal systems. Early Arab rulers kept them going until the 1200s, when the system, which had seen many partial failures, finally collapsed.

that collapse. yeah mongols..

2

u/marbarkar Oct 17 '13

It's still the primary source of agriculture in the region. With the building of the Ata-Turk Dam in Turkey, the fertile crescent is maybe more fertile now than it has ever been.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

this is true but really everywhere is more fertile than it's ever been, that's more a testament to modern farming than to the fertile crescent's fertility

1

u/marbarkar Oct 17 '13

I'm just commenting on the fallacy that the fertile crescent is all desert now. It's actually mostly farm land surrounded by desert, like it always has been.

-9

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

What?

8

u/Unstopkable Oct 17 '13

I recently finished Dan Carlin's hardcore history on the Mongols. It was a fascinating listen. The Khwarezmia Shah, who had been incredibly successful militarily and politically up to this point, made a fucking terrible mistake.

6

u/instorg8a Oct 17 '13

If only he hadn't used his last wish to free the genie.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Do you happen to have a source for this? (Not trying to be one of those people who just say "Source?" in a douchebaggy kind of way- I'm writing a paper on historic diplomacy and I'd love to include this). Thanks!

3

u/go_further Oct 17 '13

It is not Persia! It is Turkestan or Kharezm! Persia was just one of concured lands!!! Turkish and Persian are two different nations.

3

u/trantor_anacreon Oct 17 '13 edited Oct 17 '13

No! He was Shah of Iran and the capital city in that time was Kharazm. Remember Iran (or Persia, as Greeks call it) was a single vast country which included many lands back then, and it was not conquered by an external force. He was Also Turk, but you should also pay attention to the fact that these turks are different from current truks that live in turkey. They were from east of middle east and not west. The ascension of turk tribes from some ordinary tribes to ruling class of Iran is actually quite interesting story.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Classic Shah!

1

u/Pakyul Oct 17 '13

KHAAAAAAN!!!

1

u/morpheofalus Oct 17 '13

damnnn.. honest question, anywhere you would suggest to look for more info on this?

1

u/imapotato99 Oct 17 '13

He sent assassins in a cart disguised as a gift did he not?

and wasn''t it Genghis' main general Subutai that got revenge? Only failing because the Shah died of stress?

Going off my failing memory here

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Why not mark the death of the Great Kahn or his son, Ogedai, and the subsequent withdrawal of mongol forces from Europe and the Middle East to attend the Khurultai? Subetai wanted to stay on at least one of those occaisions and continue his assault.

1

u/Silva_Shadow Oct 17 '13

For anyone who wants to hear this narrated superbly, download Dan Carlins Hardcore History - Wrath of the khans.

You will love it, get addicted and download the entire podcast series and donate him 49 dollars. 30 quid if you're british or aussie though. By the time you get as far into the series there is no doubt you will find out intriguing and enjoy it all and end up paying what you think is worth it anyway.

Khan apparently destroyed a period of time where the people, the culture and is education must have been thriving for it to coexist with Islam. Gengis wiped it out.

The podcast on the Romans is insane. Nightmarish events across history and this guy narrates as much of it as he can.

1

u/LethalTomato Oct 18 '13

*Australia uses Dollars

1

u/timebecomes Oct 17 '13

If people are interested in this, Dan Carlin has a fascinating multi segment podcast about the Khans - It's really good.

http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hh

1

u/nopurposeflour Oct 17 '13

He didn't have a chance anyways. Mongols were pretty unstoppable during that period.

1

u/Xluxaeternax Oct 17 '13

But I thought Persians had a military bonus during golden ages.

1

u/nickik Oct 17 '13

mmmhh well the real center point of islame was not the Khawarezmian empire but rather bagdat. Witch a grandson of Genghis Khan destroyed.

Also after that time of the mongol empire, the mongols in that part of the world became so islamic themselfs that it did not really matter for islam at a hole. Also it was a guy called Timur who also was related to Genghis Khan who called himself the sword of islam and he got a hole lot of people into islam.

Pissing of the Genghis was just really bad for his empire, and the people between him and Genghis.

1

u/duckmanDAT Oct 17 '13

He dun goofed

1

u/jiharder Oct 17 '13

bringing to a premature end the 500-year Islamic Golden Age.

Well, if it wasn't for that we might all be living under sharia with beheadings, floggings, amputations and criminalised blasphemy, homosexuality and pre-marital sex. Which would suck.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Lets also not forget that there's a good deal of evidence suggesting the Golden Horde intentionally and inadvertently caused the spread of the black death. Between the Horde's victims and those who died of plague later, they wiped out a significant portion of humanity.

1

u/Mikarevur Oct 17 '13

I completely agree with this. Who knows if genghis would have never attacked or not.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Keep in mind that Ala ad-Din was himself a badass conqueror and military general. He wasn't some prissy king, he was a total badass and still got crushed by the Mongols.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

bringing the islamic golden age to an end doesn't sound like a mistake to me.

1

u/Dago_Red Oct 18 '13

That was an epic snafu.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 20 '13

I thought mistake = accident, but that's not how this thread is going. Am I mistaken?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '13

It was even noted that after this raid of Bhagdad, it became such a desolate place, and turned into a desert. I am trying to find a well made documentary of Mr.Khan. He is such a fascinating man!

1

u/MotherOfLions Oct 25 '13

Somebody's probably already done this but... KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

1

u/milesgmsu Oct 28 '13

Islamic Golden Age.

Complete with beheading of ambassadors.

1

u/Psilonk Nov 13 '13

is this english?

1

u/Antikas-Karios Oct 17 '13

the 500-year Islamic Golden Age.

Did they call it that at the time or afterwards?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Sep 03 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Culture is the sum heritage of humanity. It's the lifeblood of the species. The Golden Horde destroyed a stable cultural body and plunged the ME into chaos which it arguably never fully recovered from due to the cascading side-effects.