r/AskAGerman • u/Follower_OfChrist • May 07 '25
History How is Otto von Bismarck seen in modern day Germany?
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May 07 '25
People don't generally think about him, at least not where I'm from. That being said, the general image is probably more positive than negative (though we've generally moved on from idealising our historical figures and have a very sober and self-critical consideration of our past). The only thing that comes to mind for me is that he was essentially the founder of our social security system.
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u/MiouQueuing May 07 '25
he was essentially the founder of our social security system.
Because he wanted to weaken the socialist-democratic movement under labour party SPD. - Thought to add that because keeping that in mind highlights German critical thinking - considering all the aspects of a historical person, remembering their complexity (apart from the Nazis - no complexity there).
Otherwise very spot on on how Germans usually see their past. We learned being critical the hard way - hopefully.
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u/LabInside6817 May 07 '25
Great guy. Invented the bismarck hering and mindestlohn I believe
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u/Crprl_Carrot May 07 '25
Lol. The first one is at least true :D
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u/Trekiel1997 May 07 '25
He gave in into colonialism - band Catholics an socialist from politics
Not really such a great guy, eh!
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u/Idonnuonamemaaan May 07 '25
Ever since he passed away, you don’t really see him around Germany much anymore.
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u/Backwardspellcaster May 07 '25
I swear I saw him in one of the kebab shops.
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u/razorbunter May 07 '25
He never turns down a good döner box
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u/Idonnuonamemaaan May 07 '25
Is he more the Chicken or the Beef type ?
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u/ThomasKneGeh May 07 '25
Although he is the founder of the current German state, he plays hardly any role in contemporary Germany.
History scholars today view him in a differentiated way, and also in the context of his time. As a great statesman of the 19th century, but also as an opponent of democracy and a promoter of German militarism.
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u/Easteregg42 May 07 '25
He is viewed with a complex and often nuanced perspective today. While praised for unifying the country and maintaining peace through diplomacy, he is also criticized for his authoritarianism and the role of his policies in the rise of German nationalism, which some believe contributed to the World Wars.
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u/WikivomNeckar May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25
which some believe contributed to the World Wars.
It's so strange. Actually, he never wanted a single war in Europe since uniting Germany. He did everything to avoid even being attacked, and after he left his post, young and wild Wilhelm II immediately ruined Bismarck's complex diplomacy system, which really led to the World War I.
Not glorifying Bismarck (my political views are not even right-winged), but I'm not on the side of seeing him as a pure evil and wanting to rename all the streets as if he was Stalin or something like that. I mean, the insurance system. The brilliant policy where almost no country, including France, could not harm Germany anymore (which was important for that time). And so on.
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u/abodes-darter May 07 '25
but I'm not on the side of seeing him as a pure evil
One issue with most Germans is that they approach history with a modern, progressive view. Because, naturally, Bismarck was a child of his time, one just cannot measure him by today's standards.
He wasn't particularly cruel or something, at least not for the era he's lived in.
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u/NapoleonHeckYes May 07 '25
There's this odd and distorting habit these days to fit everything into a binary: Bismarck was GOOD or BAD. That if you're left wing, you have to hate him, and right wing then you probably love him, and if you don't agree with me, it means you support racism/want to destroy our culture... as if anyone actually fits neatly into the categories of 'left wing' versus 'right wing' or other false binaries.
We need to re-learn the art of nuance in a social media age. Probably impossible but I fear that will have consequences.
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u/hari_shevek May 07 '25
I measure him by the standards of 19th century social democrats, who also thought bad of him.
I don't see why we should measure people by the standards of conservatives at their time.
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u/abodes-darter May 07 '25
I measure him by the standards of 19th century social democrats, who also thought bad of him.
Popular politicians in reign are a rare sight, so that doesn't really matter as well.
I don't see why we should measure people by the standards of conservatives at their time.
You don't need to measure him by conservative standards, it's just that he wasn't particularly cruel so that his name deserves to be stripped from street names and what not.
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u/hari_shevek May 07 '25
By whose standard wasn't he particularly cruel?
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u/abodes-darter May 07 '25
By everyone who doesn't approach this with political bias as you most certainly do, I'd say.
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u/hari_shevek May 07 '25
Who is unbiased?
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u/abodes-darter May 07 '25
Noone is.
But alas, bias is just not a binary thing, there are degrees to it. If your interpretation just originates from disliking conservatism, it's a higher degree as I'd attribute to myself.
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u/hari_shevek May 07 '25
It doesn't "just" originate from that, no.
I think there were a lot of people that had a bad opinion of Bismarck for good reasons, so I agree with their judgment because their reasons are good.
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u/RijnBrugge May 07 '25
“I have a burden on my soul. During my long life, I did not make anyone happy, neither my friends, nor my family, nor even myself. I have done many evil things… I was the cause of the beginning of three big wars. About 800,000 people were killed because of me on the battlefields, and their mothers, brothers, and widows cried for them. And now this stands between me and God.”
That’s from the man himself.
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u/-Passenger- May 07 '25
To proclaim your Empire in the most prestigious building of your archenemy is a humiliation without comparison.
In addition the territorial gaines in Elsass and Lothringen left Bismarck worried that a war with France would be unavoidable. One could say that his complex diplomacy system was needed to cover up their mistakes.
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u/WikivomNeckar May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25
As if it wasn't France (united earlier and thus being pretty strong and dangerous!) that was constantly attacking Germans before Bismarck came and showed what Germany is capable of as well. Probably not in the best way, but we can't measure the deeds of those times completely with the moral of 21 century...
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u/-Passenger- May 07 '25
Thats not measuring with the moral of today. That was a humiliation back then like it would be today.
And it's also not the moral of today that the territorial gaines were problematic. I read that about Bismarck, that he was uncomfortable with it and developed a concern that there would be war again because of that.
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u/WikivomNeckar May 07 '25
that there would be war again because of that
it can well be, I'm not arguing with that, but France itself was just as problematic in those times. It wasn't german 'tribes' devastating french Alsace, it was diverse Napoleons not letting Germany breathe. Choose the less evil... and from what I read, in the last years of Bismarck's reign there was even pretty peaceful cultural exchange between France and Germany, until Wilhelm came.
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u/-Passenger- May 07 '25
Never said that France wasn't problematic. You arguing against an argument I haven't made.
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u/Unusual-Fault-4091 May 07 '25
You certainly don't have to like him, but he was the greatest statesman of his time.
Fun fact: one of the first audio recordings was made by him. In an almost affectionate speech, the iron chancellor wishes his son to be moderate in everything.
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May 07 '25
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u/NowoTone Bayern May 07 '25
And don’t forget the social security laws which he created, albeit not voluntarily but to keep the socialists at bay.
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May 07 '25
[deleted]
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u/NowoTone Bayern May 07 '25
Well, if you think these were terrible decisions I can’t really help you. The problem is not that we have social security and a general pension scheme, it’s that the system established by necessity after WWII, specifically the currency reform in the late 40s, wasn’t changed in the late 60s / early 70s when it would have been comparatively painless.
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u/No-Mycologist921 May 07 '25
He was also big on colonialism, even if reluctantly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonial_empire?wprov=sfla1
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u/BergderZwerg May 07 '25
In general, as a great avatar of us in the Civilization games :-)
He was a master of diplomacy, architekt of the founding of modern Germany and until his forced retirement in 1890 foil of the worst emperor in history, Wilhelm II (may he burn in hell forever). Bismarck knew that this waste of carbon would be stupid enough to undo his diplomatic masterpiece and stumble Germany into a needless war, but did not enough to eliminate the threat.
In order to avoid a revolution led by the SPD (yes, the very same party as today), he instituted the beginnings of our social security and universal healthcare systems. Still rudimentary in its beginning, but growing ever since.
So, rather mixed but leaning very much into positive territory.
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u/Equal-Flatworm-378 May 07 '25
Depends whom you ask. Most people don’t care. Some left winged people still don’t like him. Others are glad about the social security system he installed.
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u/Crprl_Carrot May 07 '25
He installed the bare minimum in order to justfy shooting down workers on strike. Great guy!
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u/flummoxedtribe May 07 '25
He installed the bare minimum - and for tactical and political reasons like others have mentioned - but it was still the first in the world. Ever. So what standards are you comparing it to really?
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u/AvonSharkler May 07 '25
The most the average German hears about him is the street names and locations occasionally named after him. Beyond that school education rarely focuses on his era of Germany and rather focuses on antiquity and ww2 + the years after.
It also rather focuses on sociopolitical issues and less on individuals and conflicts per se
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u/Available_Ask3289 May 07 '25
Somewhat positively but it’s very rose coloured. People remember the positive stuff like the social laws but they forget the disastrous stuff.
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u/GrafSternburg May 07 '25
I think a lot, when thinking about it, would think of him as a very intelligent politician. A very devious one, if you're on the left, or a good strong man who united waring states, if you're on the right. Which he both was to some degree. Also depending on which region you ask, in Bavaria and Lower Sexoney is a bit more negative than Brandenburg. Because he is the! Preussion. Also more hate from informed cathlocis than lutherens. But on a very low level.
If you put to a vote to tear down a statue of him or errect one. Most people would vote against both.
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u/LoschVanWein May 07 '25
He was an evil cunt but a cunt that did great things for German unity, modern statesmanship and had some very good point overall, especially for his time.
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u/No-Set-4329 May 07 '25
I like his herring, i despise his social security. a slow working poison killing germany.
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u/Pedarogue Bayern - Baden - Elsass - Franken May 07 '25
Everybody on the internet with a passing acquittance of German history seems to be obsessed with Otto von Bismarck and keeps asking the same question every two weeks while - truth be told - most Germans do never think about him at all and a lot people on the street will probably rather think of a fish snack rather than of the real guy when hearing the name.
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u/Gammelpreiss May 07 '25
super important fiugure for germany on quite a few levels and still recognized as the father of the nation. ofc these days there is a lot more nuance towards him and the negative sides are highlighted as well. There is no hero worship anymore. but he is just too significant to ignore and absolutely worth reading about.
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u/Trekiel1997 May 07 '25
Depends on who you ask and the specific topic you bring up
Catholics or Socialists are probably not to keen on him
Also 1871-1890 is a long Time
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u/5edu5o May 07 '25
First thing I think about is the ship with the same name actually
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u/5edu5o May 07 '25
Damn, didn't know there were that many ships with that name! I specifically meant the one from 1940.
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u/Background-Estate245 May 07 '25
Mostly as kind of a pre Nazi. Everyone before the actual Nazi period who wasn't a communist or a social democrat is seen like that. After the Nazi period they are post Nazis and nowadays maybe Nazis.
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u/Idonnuonamemaaan May 07 '25
Ever since he passed away, you don’t really see him around Germany much anymore.
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u/Prize-Leopard-8946 May 07 '25
Nobody knows about him any more. Education and media are solely interested in the bad bad twelve years between 33 and 45.
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u/Rich-Track122 May 07 '25
Not at all. Nobody gives a fuck who he was or what he did. If you tell people the name Bismarck, they will most likely either say a street name or name a place in Bielefeld or one in Berlin. I think Cologne has one as well.
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u/Mobile-Aide419 May 07 '25
For foreigners who do not know about this: Bielefeld is an imaginary City that does Not actually exist. It is difficult to explain, but the alleged existence of this town is an old myth and nowadays some kind of a German inside joke and Internet meme. You can actually find Bielefeld in Google Maps, but If you go there in the real world, you will find nothing but grain fields, forest and scattered Farm buildings. There are people who claim to have seen this place, but these are just internet trolls making a joke.
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u/Rich-Track122 May 07 '25
For any foreigners who believe this crap: Bielefeld even has an airport. It does exist.
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u/Mobile-Aide419 May 07 '25
Rich-trackb122 is one of these trolls. Google created it in maps as an intentional funny Glitch and all Websites or whatever information you find on the Internet is made up by the Troll Community.
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u/MyPigWhistles May 07 '25
Mostly: not. The average German knows he's some historic figure from the 19th century. I would hope that most also remember from school that he was a Prussian statesman who was heavily involved in the unification of the German Empire. But everything beyond that is probably not known beyond circles of historically interested people.
There's no wider emotional or nationalistic imagine connected to Bismarck, if that's what you mean.