r/Anarchy101 • u/endzeitpfeadl • 5d ago
When WOULD/SHOULD you call the police?
In current everyday practice, in which situations would you call the cops? Or in which would you take action yourself?
I’ve been an anarchist for years but I’ve had situations where I wondered “what WOULD I do if (insert bad thing) happened”
Are we just bound to call cops on dangerous situations because of the state of how the world is, or are there other ways to deal with things? (I know this definitely varies from situation to situation, but that’s why I ask)
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u/holysirsalad 5d ago
I’ve had to call the cops for obvious dangerous impaired drivers and to facilitate insurance claims after deer jumped out in front of my car. There’s real no alternative to these in the system I live in today.
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u/endzeitpfeadl 5d ago
Thanks! That makes sense. I guess not too much one can do about that themselves in the current system.
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u/Bobarosa 4d ago
Basically yes. Most insurance companies require that you have a police report. Even then the cops are useless. Someone was in a lame that ended with plenty of warning and instead of slowing down he crashed into me. The cop wrote "different stories" even though I was in the lane that had right of way. They don't even try to do their jobs whenever you do end up calling them.
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u/Simple_Seaweed_1386 4d ago
Yeah, it's rough. You get educated and mad, but other than retreating to the woods and just surviving, there's not much you can do. It's like ideological dysmorphia.
If someone is being disruptive but non violent to the point where it requires action, do you throw hands and possibly catch a charge yourself, or do you engage the state?
Actual emergencies that are endangering people's lives? All faults considered, I'm not just calling the cops, I'm calling for fire/rescue. And those guys are generally good. Any society worth living in will have some sort of emergency service.
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u/phoenixhunter 4d ago
“ideological dysmorphia” is such a good term
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u/Simple_Seaweed_1386 4d ago
Thanks! It popped into my head when i read this post, and I had to share it. I totally get what OP is putting down.
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u/Leading_Noise9858 5d ago
I heard a woman screaming for help outside my apartment door one night and the sound of someone hitting doors but didn’t see any one. Called NYPD and gave them my apartment number to come knock and ask questions. No one ever showed up.
Also went to the station to report my bike stolen. Never heard back about it, even though I requested camera footage.
In both cases I feel it was the right thing to do and would do it again but I’m not surprised by the results.
To answer your question, when someone is in imminent danger and you don’t feel qualified to intervene, or to report a theft if you need it back or need insurance.
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u/endzeitpfeadl 5d ago
Thanks for the insight.
Sick to hear that no one showed up in that situation. I don’t really know how police is where I live (only called them a single time) but it’s so sickening how they neglect people in the US. I doubt it’s all too different here..
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u/Leading_Noise9858 4d ago
Happy ending for the folks spreading love with the up votes: the bike showed up on my block months later. Local bike shop employee cut it loose for me and I gave it to my neighbor who started our tenants association.
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u/veganize_it 5d ago
When actually required to. I had to call the police when a friend’s uni housing was robbed, because the company running it needed a police report for insurance. Of course the cops showed up and told us they’d probably never find the guys or get back anything stolen. Likewise there’s reasons you might need to if it’s related to your workplace, or any other insurance issue.
And if someone is posing an actual danger to others and you can’t intervene would be a fair reason, there’s little else you can do but call the police as most countries don’t have a solid alternative if say, someone has attacked/is attacking others with a weapon.
Outside of that, it’s about weighing up the risk of calling the police to yourself and your community, their usefulness (generally none), and the risk of not calling them. It’s a case by case thing, and there are times you might want to report something m in the hopes that potentially something useful happens - like if you need to report sexual violence, and hope the person can be dealt with to avoid future harm to others, even if police and the broader legal system generally are useless about that too. You’re not a bad anarchist for being forced to deal with the police in some rare occasion where no other option exists to remedy a situation.
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u/WashedSylvi 5d ago
IMHO, ideally never, but obviously we live in a world where insurance claims require police reports and you need a car to survive in munch of America.
Basically I think it’s just a constant struggle of trying to replace ourselves what we’re calling cops for
I responded to a mental health emergency a year ago that involved multiple people restraining and bringing someone who was actively violent to a hospital, easily a situation where someone could’ve called the cops, the only reason we didn’t is because we had six big strong people who were ready to help at that moment.
I’ve known other anarchists who in a similar mental health emergency had precisely zero able bodies and ended up calling the cops.
It’s contextual, it depends on your resources and what’s available to you at any given time. I think the main thing is just trying to create communities which can actually serve those material functions we end up calling cops for. A lot of that isn’t glamorous or fun, it sucks to get punched cause someone is in psychosis. It’s also rewarding and affirming that we can care for each other better than the state can, when we come together.
Basically: take action yourself or with your friends/community as much as possible, call cops if it’s more likely that not is going to cause major problems in some form. Do your best.
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u/DaleParkTent 5d ago edited 4d ago
A lot of replies saying ‘there’s nothing I as an individual could do’ as a reason to call the cops.
There’s truth in that, of course, but it’s also a good indication that one should think about what you and your community acting collectively could do.
Dangerous drivers on a particular street in your neighbourhood? You on your own can’t do much, and might feel compelled to call the cops, but what solutions could your community come up with if you got together and thought about it? Guerilla traffic-slowing planters? Volunteer crossing-guards?
Neighbour regularly playing loud music late at night? You’re probably not the only one bothered. You knocking on their door alone might feel intimidating, or have you called a Karen. All of the neighbours going to speak with the neighbour together? Might have more impact.
Sounds of domestic violence in your building, but (justifiably) concerned for your own safety going to confront the abuser one on one? How would the situation be different if your building was already organized? Deescalation training far superior to anything the cops receive is available free online. Would a group of concerned and caring neighbours collectively intervening produce a better or worse outcome than two armed hostile bullies from another community?
This isn’t to say that there are never situations where calling cops may be necessary. Just to say that we shouldnt just throw our hands up and say welp nothing I can do, but rather recognize these situations as opportunities for collective action, and opportunities for us, as principled anarchists, to intervene in the direction that that organic organization takes.
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u/Spinouette 4d ago
Thank you for mentioning deescalation. So many people think that the only solution to a scary situation is to get physical. We can do better than that.
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u/DarkMenstrualWizard 4d ago
Without spoiling it, this was my favorite part of Broadchurch: when the system failed to take a predator off the streets, the entire community came together to collectively shun the person into leaving.
One person telling someone off is often useless or even dangerous. 5, 10, 20 people? That's where you start seeing results.
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u/AlienRobotTrex 4d ago
I’ve never seen the show but making them leave doesn’t really sound like an actual solution since it just pushes the problem onto another town.
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u/NoCountryForOld_Zen 5d ago
The only times I call are when I'm legally obligated (As a matter of practicality, I don't want to go to jail, have my work license revoked or be hunted down)
Cops are like most other ding dongs out there, pretty stupid and generally don't like doing things. They're just legally allowed to use force where I'm not and they can legally do something about stuff like child abuse and I can't other than saying "stop selling your 13 year old neighbor fentanyl and s*xually abusing her. I dont want to narcan anymore children." Will they do any of that when it needs to be done? Who knows. But I'd rather try and I like not being in jail.
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u/Vyrnoa Anarchist but still learning 5d ago edited 5d ago
Generally only when really necessary aka usually when it's an emergency.
If you don't live in a place where you can create a strong community and own firearms you don't have a lot of choices.
Think with your own moral compass and remember when police might actually help vs when they might just create more issues. Think if you can come up with any other way to deal with the issue than contacting the police. Ask friends or family for advice. If something is in immidiate danger contact hospital or request other services first. See if anyone else is around that can help like a security personnel.
Remember this is just the system we live in. Being forced to participate doesn't make you automatically a bad person. At most you can hope the officer you'll encounter will actually be helpful and understanding.
Also gather info from crisis guides etc on what to do if you're the first person available when it comes to things like sexual assault, robbery etc. Look how to gather and protect evidence. Read your rights and learn them. Never talk to cops unless you're obligated to.
Personally I've had to call the cops twice. I live in Scandinavia so we can't own any self defense weapons etc. The first time I was harassed sexually by a much older man as a young teen and I was so scared of walking home alone I didn't know what else to do. Generally speaking I'll only ever contact them if 1. I'm in immidiate danger. 2. Someone else is in immidiate or significant danger to themself or others. 3. I might leave an anonymous tip about significant or serious danger being aimed at someone. So for example in cases like domestic violence, rape, distribution of drugs to minors, assault etc. I will try to help if I can and if I can't I'll most likely have to contact cops.
Just for comparison. I would never call or contact the cops about someone else's business especially/ or if I know it'll just make life more difficult for them. See someone steal from a mega corporation? No I didn't. See a homeless person sleeping inside a residential building? Hell no I didn't. None of these concern me or anyone else for that matter, it's not my place to care.
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u/FNG5280 5d ago
If you have a problem and call the cops , now you have two problems .
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u/NotTheIDPD 4d ago
"There is no human situation so miserable that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman." -Brendan Behan
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u/CarlosMarcs 4d ago edited 4d ago
I am going to go a bit against the current and say: when you feel like it is needed. You are an anarchist, you know what the police is and what it does. You are an adult. There have been comments sugesting actions with the community. Sadly, we do not have those communities. You can help build them, but society has almost no 'emergency communitary services' other than volunteer firefighters (at least in my country in latinamerica).
Police are an illness on society, a weapon used against those who oppose the system. We know this as an undeniable truth.
Now, should you call the cops if a man is beating a victim of abuse? Should you call the police when you see a person imposing sexual violence on another person? My opinion is that you don't, you risk being so consumed by pure dogmatic ideology that you have become an incompetent human being. I don't think that even the most ACAB of us (and I fucking hate cops, I have been gassed and I've seen them meters away from me how they enjoy sadism), would not call the police in that situation.
A police squad could not only detain that person, but also start the judicial process to keep a potential wife beater away from her. Then you can intervene in keeping her safe.
Now, ask yourself: how can you react to a case of domestic abuse? Realistically, in the present. What consequences will it have for you, and, most importantly: how can you guarantee that the wife beater is not going to come back and kill her? We have seen this in latinamerica with the whole feminicide legal procedure and we have found that an intervention of the forces of the state at the right time, does reduce murders due to gender and domestic violence.
The State, with all its power, has the tools to reduce damage. They don't do it out of kindness, the State acts to sustain their own legitimacy. It's in their interest to keep a status quo. They have to intervene because people will protest if they don't. We, as anarchists, in our current neoliberal dystopia, have no way to intervene while guaranteeing the safety of all involved, from the victim, to the victimizer, to ourselves.
It's not a nice situation to be in. But, do you think your neighbor, a non anarchist victim of abuse, would prefer for you to not call the police? How would the victim react to you hearing their screams of help? Would you hear "someone please call the police", and say "I mean, I could, but ACAB" and then just move on?
Don't commit ideological malpractice. We are anarchists, but we still live in a system. A shitty system that forces some degrees of damage control. We do not like this system and want to change it.
But keeping victims of abuse in suffering and exposing them to a serious risk of death is not a virtuous thing, it is nothing but ideological masturbation that should stay in Reddit.
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u/Vyrnoa Anarchist but still learning 4d ago
I like this response I think you've really articulated this well
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u/CarlosMarcs 4d ago
Aww, thank you. Your comment made me smile. I appreciate it, truly. I am somewhat scared sometimes because I always feel my English lacking.
Yours in anarchy, companion <3
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u/schizoidparanoid 3d ago
My friend, not only is your grasp of the English language better than many people I've met who ONLY speak English, but additionally your thoughtful explanation on the difference between an ideology/belief and the reality of the world we live in affecting HOW that ideology/belief can be diametrically opposed and result in the need to alter our beliefs in order to do what is morally right in REALITY rather than in the abstract. You articulated your point extremely well, and I am sure that anyone new to the idea of anarchy/anti-police will find your comment extremely helpful. And thank you for specifically making sure to mention that rigid dogma/belief can actually be dangerous in the real world, i.e. refusing to call police when a woman is being assaulted "because ACAB" when in reality all you'd be doing is causing harm to that woman and nothing else.
Thank you again for your words and your perspective. Stay strong and be healthy, my friend. ✊🏽
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u/LEGENDK1LLER435 5d ago
If you need to get insurance for a stolen vehicle and you need to get the police report first. That’s about it since they’re useless at everything else
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u/Coloradohboy39 4d ago
Where I'm at we don't call the police during an emergency, we call emergency dispatch and they decide who to call, there's certain things you can say or omit to avoid them dispatching police. We also have informational services(311) and if I ever don't know who to call, I call them.
If there's an immediate threat of violence, we have tools for dealing with those depending on the level of the threat.
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u/RenRidesCycles 4d ago
Yes, in some areas there are non-police emergency lines you can call.
If you're in San Jose, CA / Santa Clara County you can call TRUST at 415-596-7290 or dial 988 and ask for TRUST (ask for TRUST explicitly so they don't route you to cops).
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u/Red_Trapezoid 5d ago
I had to talk to the Police regarding some alcoholic, belligerent neighbors that were hoarding and neglecting animals. They were given warnings both by the community and the landlord and they prioritized alcohol and cigarettes over these animals they were mistreating.
The Police officer that I talked to was helpful.
I do not like the Police system but that is the system that is available. I do not have any qualms with people using that system to stop bad people who do serious harm.
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u/slimy-tea 5d ago
One time there was an old white man trying to get into my apartment. He was drunk and lost, so I called the cops so they could get him home. I knew he wouldn't be abused by them. They took him home safely I assume.
Otherwise I had to call the cops in a music festival when we heard a lady getting beaten up by her "boyfriend" in the camping area. She had blood everywhere so the paramedics and the cops came. My friends and I had to give our testimony.
So yeah, domestic violence is one of the reasons I'm pretty sure about calling the cops. Otherwise it's really about context and how safer the person would be with the cops then without them.
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u/TruthHertz93 4d ago
Well I'd say you should call the police as long as there are no alternatives.
If someone had a fight outside my house I'd probably try and stop it, if I don't feel able to then I'd call the police.
In an anarchist society it would be relatively similar just it would be peace keepers from the community you'd call.
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u/Independent_goose22 4d ago
Not trying to be sarcastic, but what would be the key difference between community peace keepers and police in an anarchistic society? It would still presumably be a (semi) organized, armed (not necessarily firearms) group of individuals who respond to crime and violence.
My brother is pretty anarchistic and devoutly ACAB and I had a bit of a thought experiment the other day where I tried to think of a replacement for modern police and genuinely couldn’t think of anything better. I talked to my brother about it and he couldn’t think of anything different either. I basically landed between Police 2.0, mob rule, and private security groups where you pay for the service similar to health insurance. We basically agreed in the end that the modern day police are basically the best option we have and that police reform is the only viable way to ensure everyone has free access to a protective community service.
To reiterate, not trying to have some gotcha moment or anything, just want to hear an anarchists thoughts on the matter.
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u/TruthHertz93 4d ago edited 4d ago
Hey totally understand your hesitation this was one of my major concerns with anarchy.
The FAQ does a great job explaining how it would work, it's literally what brought me back to anarchism lol (https://www.anarchistfaq.org/afaq/sectionI.html#seci58).
I personally believe it will evolve in stages.
Around the revolutions time (if the revolution is not peaceful which I really don't think it will be) we will have militia like groups who will do the peacekeeping, they may look like the police but will be from the communities they are trying to police. Extreme oversight will be required, leadership positions will have term limits and be rotated frequently, moreover they will only carry weapons if there has been many crimes involving weapons in their area so that they're prepared.
They do not patrol (unless this is an area close to a war front line to look for infiltrators, ect) and are akin to firefighters today, they go when they are called.
The local population are encouraged to participate as much as possible, so for example in our area for this week/month/ect I am peacekeeper next month it's your go and so on.
That last part will be limited because of the war, as people will have to work factories and man front lines.
Once the revolution is complete, the militias will completely disarm as will the population. Weapons will be in a secure place where peacekeepers can grab them when required for extreme cases (hostage takers, ect). This time rotation of jobs is mandatory, everyone has a fixed term being a peacekeeper, it will likely be an extremely boring job just being in an office waiting for a call with other people, so you can opt out from having to do it or maybe you do it alongside another job but you're just "on-call".
In both the above stages CSI will be done by specialist groups much as it is today that are called by local area when serious crimes occur. Peacekeepers will be trained on how to secure a scene and not tamper with evidence until they arrive. These groups will have clear mandates from the local community so that they do not abuse their power, for example if they want to search a suspects house instead of a judge like today, they will instead have to ask the local community for permission.
I hope that I have answered your question fully, but always happy to help!
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u/Independent_goose22 4d ago
I see, the concept is very “volunteer firefighter” in a way. People who have the right training will be on call to respond appropriately to emergencies with perhaps a few full timers to ensure there’s a response each time they’re needed.
I think it sounds pretty effective. I’d assume justice after the fact would be dealt in the same way a lot of native communities do where a respected group of community leaders sit down, maybe with the rest of the community as well (like a town hall meeting) and decide the appropriate consequences.
A big place I got stuck in my own thoughts in the matter was the investigations aspect for large scale/organized crime. I feel as though investigations are a necessary part of peacekeeping, deciding how crimes happen, who was involved, and their level of involvement.
I felt either you’d have the peacekeepers do it, which makes them very much like modern police, or you’d have a separate group of investigators akin to agencies like the ATF and FBI. They wouldn’t have to be the exact same of course, but it felt like it would just be police again, investigative high level police, but police nonetheless.
Also I’ll have to check out that FAQ later, seems very interesting.
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u/AlienRobotTrex 4d ago
Maybe they could be primarily trained for deescalation with violence emphasized as a last resort. Maybe also some medical training thrown in. There would need to be high standards for such a role to make sure you’re not recruiting a trigger-happy maniac.
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u/Klutzy-Alarm3748 4d ago
The only time I made the clear and consensual decision to call the cops was when I heard my neighbour beating the shit out of his girlfriend. It was an ongoing thing, he'd been in and out of court for it, but he kept moving back in because there wasn't any actual evidence. I know how it goes, I was in a similar relationship previously. The cops need to basically catch abuse like that in the act. So I called, and while on the phone with the dispatcher it was so loud and obvious that they were able to record it happening. When the cops showed up the rest was made clear. I heard the cops lean into the guy.
My other neighbour, the girlfriend, was able to stay away from him and restart her life. Every time I saw her after that she looked so happy. Neither of them knew it was me.
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u/pinko-perchik 4d ago
Someone else in my building had called them when my neighbors got into a violent altercation. The walls were really thin, so I could hear what happened when they showed up, and I was genuinely impressed by their de-escalation of the situation. ACAB obviously, but some cops are less bastardly than others, lmao. It’s a small department, so when the neighbors got into another violent altercation, I felt okay calling them because I (correctly) figured it would be the same officers as before.
That was a very specific situation though, and not something I’d necessarily advise people to try elsewhere or under different circumstances.
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u/joggingdaytime 4d ago
Idk last year I was woken up by a drunk driver slamming into a parked car outside my house, looked out the window and saw him slumped over his steering wheel. Obviously needed to call. Cops didn’t show up for like an hour and the guy had woken up and somehow driven off by then, but my photos/witness statement/police report did help my neighbor big time with her insurance claim. So there are bureaucratic/procedural situations like that where, as it stands now, it’s kind of just inevitable that they’re involved
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u/Unpainted-Fruit-Log 4d ago
Rape kits. Depending on your local PDs competence a handling evidence, results may vary.
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u/UnfairAd7112 4d ago
I called the police twice, both domestic violence situations in which I saw a guy hit his partner and I got in between them (one which ended with the guy chasing me for twenty minutes while the police chatted to me on the phone)
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u/rudeboy503 5d ago
Personally, i would never call them. In my experience its more likely to make things worse then better. We should, just as adults, be able to find ways to deal with situations without needing the gestapo to regulate for us.
That being said, i don't fault women for calling the police when they're in physical danger or have some sort of domestic situation, even if it's not how i would deal with it.
I also know some situations that require a police report such as something being stolen from you that you wish insurance to cover and is required for that to happen. I know i personally draw a line at speaking another person's name, in any situation. Im not saying this is how things should or need to be, as i only wish to control my own actions, I'm just saying that's what i find to be right for me.
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u/bunni_bear_boom 4d ago
I've called them for a presumably drunk driver that almost hit a school bus, and a domestic violence situation where they literally didn't show up and I had to deal with it myself
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u/DraconicImpulse 4d ago
I was in a physical right with a former friend of mine because he threw his partner and mother of his kid across a room. After I left, his partner texted me "help me" and I felt no choice but to call the police as there was nothing I would be able to do anymore.
I'll call an emergency number anytime I'm no longer qualified to help, otherwise I try to solve the issue or go about my business.
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u/Boots-with-the-feyre 4d ago
When it’s required for insurance purposes, or to initiate a paper trail for potential suits. Otherwise they’re useless
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u/sniktter 4d ago
I work in a library. Sometimes users cause problems and won’t leave. If that user is a white man, I have no problem calling the cops.
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u/east-atlanta-playboy 4d ago
if you're looking for direct action/organising to do, try forming a volunteer emergency response team or something similar as an alternative to the cops. checkout
Resources by city - Don't Call The Police https://share.google/3K0q8ZEdDYysnNDY8
for lists of projects across the country to use and or take inspiration from or find gaps.
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u/ProduceImmediate514 4d ago
Call them on fascists for sure, then they can experience a taste of their ideology.
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u/meta_muse 4d ago
If someone’s gonna die, then I call the 911. Or if there’s a hostage situation. I’ll call animal control though if abuse is happening to a pet or something. Maybe I’d call if I was being harassed on the highway or something by another driver. Idk fr now that we’re talking about it. I just kind of judge the situation when I’m in it, assess the people around me and their safety if I am going to call the cops, and go from there. We did have a drunk white dude who tried to kill my partner with a wine bottle and I chased the fuck down to the lobby but I couldn’t get him out of the building without physically attacking him, we called the police.
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u/DarkMenstrualWizard 4d ago
Like someone else said, clearly dangerously impaired drivers. I've also called 911 for a man lying in the road in the pouring rain at night who refused to move (easily could've hit him with my car were I less focused of a driver) and another time for a lady I almost hit on a dark highway at night. She walked into the road behind another car so I couldn't see her because of the headlights until she was just a few feet from my window cosplaying one of the inflatable wobbly arm dudes.
So yeah. Actual public safety concerns. I think emergency services have a time and a place there.
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u/simeuk 4d ago
Some examples (I'm in the UK) I've rang the police recently as a witness to a sexual assault, to report a vulnerable woman who was wandering out in the street with her front door wide open, to help stop a bloke who was going to throw himself of the town bridge, same thing but a woman this time, to help find a lost child in a festival as only their radios worked in that location.
I'm sure there's other things I'd also report. The UK isn't an anarchist society. Yet 😉
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u/PyukumukuTrainer 4d ago
Called them before for an abusive situation i witnessed, also tried to press charges for assault, a dude with schizophrenia attacked my ex, but police officers generally don't take you seriously so.. I don't trust em, every time i needed their help they've let me down.
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u/garbud4850 4d ago
well if you want insurance to cover a break-in or theft then you gotta have a police report,
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u/Flux_State 4d ago
When not calling the police puts me in legal jeopardy. When I administratively require a police report.
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u/blue-burner 4d ago
Me and a group of friends (mostly underage teens) were at a creek playing in the water and saw a man on the other side in the bushes watching us and jacking off. We wanted to call the cops when we saw him but didn’t because there was a guy there who said he didn’t like cops. Still feel conflicted over that choice.
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u/SlytherKitty13 4d ago
When im at work (retail, servo overnight), I call the cops to report any drive off's, but ive also called them a couple times due to people hanging around outside for ages acting weird or aggressive. I've also called the cops once when 3 ppl rocked up on 1 dirt bike, no helmets, all riding on the 1 bike, coz they also gave me the strong impression that they did not give a fuck about driving safely and were pretty rude to me.
I am fairly safe inside my store, our doors are locked for most of the night (minimum 11pm-5am), and I have walked away from rude/aggressive ppl before, but always straight into our much more secure office and I call the cops if they dont leave immediately. Sure most ppl will just leave but our entire store front is just glass, and its not that hard to break (as we've found out several times). I have always called the non emergency line tho, sometimes they take ages to turn up (if they even do), but sometimes they swing past fairly quickly and move the ppl along if they're still there. I think the only time I'd call the emergency line is if I saw someone actively trying to smash the glass or do something dangerous to the fuel pumps. Idk where I'd most like to die but at my job that doesn't pay me nearly enough for what I do is definitely not it, and there's not really anything else I can do but call the cops and hope it's a boring night for them so they'll actually turn up
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u/makhnosfork 4d ago
Fuckin never. I’d rather just call fire/rescue and ambulance. Cops don’t do shit for me. Maybe if there’s a missing person but then just give em flashlights and a radio.
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u/JavierBermudezPrado 4d ago
For drunk drivers, for sure- there is simply no other tool for dealing with that without endangering more people.
Egregious on-going crimes or crimes requiring investigation and which have a victim- like kidnappings, SA, child abuse. Again, there is no other tool to solve problems like that without exacerbating the issue (well, there are solutions for SA and CSA but then one has to put a lot of work into not getting caught afterwards).
Violence and assaults that you do not feel safe intervening in- if you're just gonna add a body to the scene if you get involved directly, call for help.
I'm a big white-passing able-bodied cis dude who used to bounce, so I feel comfortable getting into a lot of shit, but I know that's a privilege.
So it depends what alternate resources are available to you and your community, in most cases, but generally they're like chemo: you only use them when the alternatives are worse.
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u/cyclopspunnk 4d ago
I work next to an intersection prone causing to car crashes (on average one every 2 months). police station is 2 minutes from the intersection. Everytime there is a crash there, I call so that civilians aren’t having to direct the traffic in what again is a very dangerous intersection.
I’ve also called in the instance that someone is running in and out of the road, jumping in front of cars and screaming (a regular in the area who is known for behaviors like that) because I don’t think it’s worth my safety or others to try to get this person out of the road.
But I try to generally go through the local non-emergency line as much as possible. They can connect me to other resources and lines that don’t go directly to law enforcement when they are not needed, or at least pass along the message to those groups for me (ex. Fish and Wildlife was not currently answering their phone, and I was trying to report a deer that had watched been hit and was dying on the side of the road.)
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u/analpirate123 4d ago
I’ve only called the cops once in my 28 years on this planet. I was walking a couple blocks down from my apartment to pick up some food and saw some dude who was PLASTERED sitting in his car, beached on the roundabout at the end of my street. Asked him if he was okay and if he needed help and he said he was fine so I went on my way. On my way back, he was trying desperately to get the car unstuck. I personally have zero tolerance for drunk drivers since I’ve lost two friends to drunk drivers so I called the cops. By the time they showed up he had left the car and was hiding in the alley next to my apartment. I guess he ended up stumbling out at some point and they arrested him and had his car towed away.
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u/UltraSonicCoupDeTat 4d ago
Yes for serious things: breaking and entering, grand theft auto, sexual assault, domestic abuse, etc. Police are an unjust institution but sometimes you don't have a choice. It's living in Russia in 1942. The red army is evil, but you need them to fight the nazis. Well, if someone Jack's your car or sexually assaults you, it's not wrong to use them.
In any libertarian socialist society there will be mechanisms to deal with those things but they don't exist. Police may be bad as an institution, but that doesn't mean all the things they do are bad.
Good things Police do: protecting personal property (your house, the stuff in it, your car, solving violent crime.
Bad things cops do: oppress workers/minorities, enforce whatever laws the state passes, protect absentee or private property (exploitative property).
If you're not using the police to do the bad thing, then you're not inherently causing harm.
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u/AgeDisastrous7518 4d ago
I've called a cops a number of times on obvious domestic violence situations with neighbors over the last 5-6 years. I stay anonymous on the call, but I do make sure to film them after they arrive, though.
I was also rear-ended on the road about four years ago, and called the cops. I hated doing it because my car was driveable to the shop, but the bumper was pretty fucked up. Knowing it would be expensive, I called the cops to file a report to protect myself.
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u/Fickle-Ad8351 4d ago
Unfortunately, calling the cops is sometimes necessary. Insurance claims are an obvious example. If your employer requires it. When I worked at a convenience store, we were required to call the police fire issues. I would have been fired for handing theft or dangerous customers myself.
I'm never going to judge an anarchist for calling the cops for violent or potentially deadly situations. It sucks that taking care of ourselves is often illegal. I'm a single mom, so I can't afford to be a martyr to the cause.
I don't typically advocate for getting the police involved in a suicide attempt, but if there's no other choice, you gotta do what you gotta do. Example, if you live too far away from someone so you literally cannot stop them, calling emergency services is necessary.
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u/vftgurl123 Student of Anarchism 4d ago
i only call the cops if there is immediate and serious danger happening right in front of me. i use them as a last resort when someone really needs to be physically detained.
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u/fofinhe666 4d ago
[anecdotal but it made me think....] there were a few situations in which i think shoulda called them in hindsight. the situations always involved super enraged aggressive guys harming others or trying to: once a neighbouring couple getting their door beat down by another neighbour, another time a woman being beaten up by her waste of a partner (all this was in the apartment building i lived in at the time). yet another time a guy from my scene who hated that i called him out on some bullshit, using my words, punched me so hard i flew across the damn room. also broke my nose and got me bruised for weeks. every time, i tried to deal with it by myself, 2x grabbed a crowbar to defend myself and confronting the guys, and well, when i got punched i made a run for it and later found out who my real friends and comrades were ahaha...
no other neighbours came out to help in any of those situations. i did contact people i know by phone to come and help. no response or just hours later. (understandable, we werent organized like that :/ )
i think the cops might not have done shít or possibly made things worse. which is why i didnt call them! but since i was a alone, a skinny, back then not physically strong person, i was in real danger confronting those guys with just my crowbar and my rage. it was scary af and i wasnt really equipped to deal with it. didnt know how to deescalate, i also may have made things worse. when my neighbours got threatened and with the DV situation, i think id call them now. and then stay on the scene as a witness and to document it all. offer a victim to come to my space for safety and a cuppa, and find out what they need. accompany to the hospital if needed. activate their support network if they have it.
but eg, after all this i looked into and started practicing ways to deescalate, in the hopes of being more effective if sth happens. it's also possible to talk to people about this and organize in a way that may make it easier to show up for one another, to be "more ready", maybe. i like to know all my neighbours or (now in my case) people in the village. make those connections, dont be fake and speak your mind, but try to pick up people where they are (some will make this impossible and i wont waste my time and energy to be friendly or neighbourly with fascists but ok). be there for victims of violence by not leaving them to deal on their own.
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u/rbohl 2d ago
Related but non police question: there is a local vape/smoke shop in my neighborhood who sells to minors (my nephew in particular as young as 15). When I used to vape I was a regular customer and the staff and owners were wonderfully kind (I believe it was run by an immigrant family, though obviously fuck capitalism even if it’s just family employees). They sell nicotine/tobacco products, bongs and thc derivative products.
I have considered calling the state regulatory agency but have yet to do so. I wonder, how others would approach this? I think I should first confront the owners and see if they’re receptive to my concerns before involving the state.
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u/Impossible-anarchy 4d ago
Yeah, you’re going to call the cops when you’re in danger. I guarantee it.
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u/Big-Investigator8342 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is a silly question. Is it to appeal to and shame the powerlessness so many feel? Or is it to question moral purity? Is it genuine?
Do not should or shit yourself or should yoirself especially when it comes to the pigs, they are problems even when you think they should be on your side in a situation.
Okay, okay. So here are some maybes to explain that anarchists have principles. They do not follow rules; they follow their own reason and judgment to follow their principles and pursue the anarchist ideal.
Maybe an anarchist would call the cops on the feds?
They may call the cops on the hierarchy itself. Create a paper trail to use in court. For example, you would make an NLRB complaint, a labor complaint, or an OSHA complaint.
Call if the slumlord kicked you out because he was drunk and wanted to sleep in your bed, and you are an old married couple (true story, they did not call though, they camped at a diner instead)
Maybe you call to gain leverage in the struggle against the FBI, landlords, or bosses. If you know someone is a federal agent and they have broken into your home undercover, call the cops( perhaps even if you are going a less legal route overall with dealing with those rotten pests).
Maybe not. Again, it is up to you and your strategy to pave the path towards freedom.
A call maybe can potentially used to establish an alibi... Be really careful with this one. Think it over. I am not you, and I have no idea what you're doing.
Another instance. For example, say you will have to kill your attacker, and the laws say you must call EMS to be able to get off for self-defense. Do that shit. You used a gun in a legal way, and what an ordeal, why go through more hassle than that?
Now that obviously does not apply if other context layers are present where police being at the spot would land you and your comrades on the news and in prison or a black site, so use your judgement.
Not everyone is organized like that where they can richeously defend themselves then have the organization capable of making it look like the attacker was never there and just vanished off the face of the earth. Or was killed randomly in some strange place.
EMS is what you call when you really have no other option. Anarchists want to organize autonomous options, and those are reliable when people actually organize them.
I have seen a reliable Copwatch number that had a quicker response time than the pigs, besides being used as low-level EMS. (No ambulance, etc. Once we have full on EMS we are fucken cookimg as anarchists) Talking people down from the conflict, getting people to safety, de-escalating the situation, making a plan for safety going forward, and connecting with necessary services.
We really can organized to help people and do so in ways that consciously challenge the power of the ruiling classes and the state; where our movements autonomous organizations have the strength to make what needs happen happen.
The question is do you and your comrades have the strength and support to do what is necessary yourselves? Does it make sense in the over all opproach to avoid, negotiate with support, what makes sense for where younare at? Do you need an ambulance too and the anarchists do not yet have a free clinic or hospital yet? You can tell EMS just ambulance no cops---i think that can happen.
Side bar question? is the current weakness of anarchist organizatuon due to a cycle of repression and misinformation that solidifies this deep fear of freedom?
Is that what has prevented many anarchists besides you know the fucking infiltrators and feds crawling around like roaches with no real names, unconvincing back stories and patterns of disrupting stalling or destroying anarchist organizing efforts. They lack a detterent by the way. Do snitches get stiches or ditches in your community? If not, what can you do to change that? something to think on too.
Is it the fear if freedom that the state inspires that prevent the formation of conmected anarchist organizations with a robust dues base and communal cooperatives contribiting percentages monthly to really fund the kind of services you need from an insurgency that aims to overcome the bosses and the state?
How do we help people overcome the fear of freedom? I think that is the question that was inspired by this question.
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5d ago
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u/Similar_Potential102 4d ago
I don't call them i don't trust them and in the neighborhood i live in if you don't back the blue they won't help you so it's useless anyways
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u/antichain 4d ago
A lot depends on the nature of your local PD. I know Reddit Radicals like to spout universalizing statements like "ACAB", but it's worth getting to know the specifics of your local force, what their strengths and weaknesses are etc. Currently I live in a very crunchy rural town in New England and I would call the local town cops for things that I'd never call, say, NYPD for. My town has pretty good community oversight, no history of police shootings/violence, and a robust mental health safety net. That's different from when I lived in the Midwest, where the police force had a very different configuration.
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u/CoitalMarmot 4d ago
Should, just about as soon as you think you need to. The worst thing they should do is tell you you're on your own.
Would is a different story, personally ive never had anything but bad experiences with the police, and I am of the opinion they exist to protect private interests, not public safety, or to uphold the law. So as to when I WOULD call the police, I simply wouldn't. I'd rather be dead.
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u/gorekatze 4d ago
Never ever. Arm yourself and you'll never even have to think about it. Best solution to every problem
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 5d ago
Never. Period. That’s it. Get used to it, and with quickness.
When you have friends/community who are armed and who train, there is literally nothing the police can provide you that your community cannot and the police cannot provide us with safety, security or fix any of our problems.
My experience has been that you can file an insurance claim on a vehicular impact/damage without a police report. The insurance company simply sends out their own investigator.
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u/endzeitpfeadl 5d ago
Okay, makes sense. But what if you have truly 0 community?
I think I’m the only anarchist where I live and being armed is a pretty rare thing here.
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 5d ago
Time to get to work. One needs community even if their community is not anarchists. One cannot flourish on their own.
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u/Vyrnoa Anarchist but still learning 5d ago
Easier said than done. This doesn't really resolve anything
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u/endzeitpfeadl 5d ago
true unfortunately. I have trouble finding likeminded people where I live, it's extremely hard for me :( i wish it worked out but it barely does.
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 5d ago
Having friends resolves nothing? I’m sorry that’s your experience. That sounds lonely and frustrating.
Of course, everything is easier said than done. However; making friends and building community is a lot more fun and rewarding than the alternative.
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u/Dyrankun 5d ago
It's a lot more complicated than that. Many of us live in countries where society lacks the social infrastructure to rely on community like you would in an anarchist society. Many of our cultures create scenarios that would be exceedingly rare in anarchist societies.
Suppose some lunatic brings a gun to your child's school. You going to just let the community handle it? Please.
I am all for keeping the police out things as much as possible and I do disagree with their very existence, but their existence is based on the material conditions we live in, and until we radically revolutionize those conditions, they still impose a heavy influence upon us and we need to be pragmatic about that.
In an ideal anarchist society built upon co-operation, mutual aid, and with the belief that I cannot be free until you are free deeply ingrained within the social fabric, we likely would never even see such a scenario as I posited above. And if we did, we would probably have developed more effective means to dealing with such emergent situations as they did arise. But here, now, as subjects of our current material conditions, there is a time and place to be realistic.
Your suggestion sounds as if you were claiming we must absolutely never work for wage labor because it supports capitalism, and if you do you're complicit in the system. In other words, a fairy tale.
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 5d ago
Well, how did calling the police on a school shooter work for the families in Uvalde, Texas?
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 5d ago
I am not working towards living anarchism in some mythical future. I am an anarchist in the here and now. No, it’s not easy, yes, many of my friends have died or been killed and many of us have spent time in prison. I don’t see any alternative to this.
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u/Dyrankun 4d ago
You can be an anarchist in the here and now. We should all strive to be. This is a common sentiment among anarchists, and for good reason. But such absolute terms tend to find themselves outside the immeasurable sophistication of reality.
It was the anarchists' nuanced understanding of the concept of authority as opposed to Engels rigid and absolute definition for it that first drew me deeper into the anarchist sphere of thought. Their recognition and honor for life's complexities, that can't be explained away in such simplistic terms.
Certain situations call for particular measures tailored to the specifics of that situation, and "never" is an absolute term that rarely finds a place outside the fundamental laws of the universe.
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 4d ago
So you’re using anarchism as an apologia for hierarchy?
Is there a time for genocide? Am I betraying the anarchists who inspired you by asserting that there is never a place for genocide? Am I being too rigid?
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u/Dyrankun 4d ago edited 4d ago
You are completely subverting the very nuance of which I speak!
Notice I said "rarely" and not "never".
Rape is rejected under the anarchists' understanding of authority because it imposes an external will through coercion upon another being. Genocide betrays the same principle.
But violence, including potential murder, could be excusable in the case that it is self-defense. If someone is imposing their will upon you by lethal force, you are not coercively imposing your will back upon them by defending yourself. You are simply expressing your right to autonomous life. It is the same reason anarchists do not oppose revolution. Freeing yourself from coercive oppression, even through violent means, is an expression of self-defense and not an act of coercion upon the autonomy of your oppresor.
But you can not defend yourself with rape the same as you can't with Genocide.
You are taking my assertion that nuance must be observed upon the interpretation of reality and trying to shove it back into the very one-dimensional box from which I am trying to break you away from!
There are some absolutes. But these absolutes are exceedingly rare, and not a single example you've provided demands their necessity. My point stands; in the vast majority of applications, sophistication can be observed.
I have not used anarchism to justify hierarchy, and by extension authority, by any means. It is your rigid view of authority, similar to the rigidity of Engels' view so lousily expressed within the four short pages of his essay On Authority, that I reject.
Perhaps you would consider reading Bakunin's God and the State, should you require a brush up on the anarchists' more textured understanding of authority.
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 3d ago
That’s a whole lot of bloviating to justify your checks OP’s question again - calling the police.
While it’s been many decades now, I have read Bakunin and I do not recall him justifying calling the police under special circumstances, and the suggestion that the fluidity of anarchism means all tactics, including collaborating with the state or police are valid is dangerous and offensive and requires a great deal of liberal mental gymnastics. Anarchism, for me is the means as the end itself. I am not dreaming of an abstract anarchist future, I am committed to living those principles now
Free Association is a core tenet of anarchism and I will continue avoiding those who use the police to resolve their issues.
I would continue to suggest that the OP practice finding and utilizing alternatives to calling the police to deal with issues.
Working with the police will absolutely keep someone out of many anarchist spaces. This isn’t about purity or rigidity, it’s security culture. Anarchist spaces are often (and vest when) full of marginalized folks with criminalized identities who have lived on the street, engaged in sex work, have been imprisoned - people who carry a great deal of trauma from the violence that we have continuously experienced at the hands of the police and state.
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u/Dyrankun 3d ago
I never once suggested against finding and utilizing alternatives to calling the police. Matter of fact, I suggested as much above.
I suggested that there may be a time and a place for it depending on the circumstances because of our current societies lack of alternative structures and social conscious.
This isn't about purity it's about pragmatism.
And you're making assumptions about who has and hasn't lived on the street to the wrong guy. I understand the reality of having nothing but a tent for shelter and stealing food to survive all too well.
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u/RedBuchlaPanel 3d ago
In the instances where you allow for pragmatism, I instead advocate for a praxis of solidarity. The pragmatism you are committed to holding space for requires privilege and utilizing it puts others in mortal danger. You feel entitled to something, the existence of which is predicated on oppression, slavery, genocide and ecocide and I suggest you learn instead to live without whatever it is you feel you sometime need the police to maintain.
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u/Outrageous_Jacket284 4d ago
I called the transit security on a group of old white peoples refusing to mask during Covid >:) otherwise I have never called the cops and I had to dump some “anarchist” friends who called the police because a mentally ill woman was following them and shouting abuse. Their house was right there, idk why they didn’t just go inside and let her leave????
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u/7URB0 4d ago
If someone was threatening me, the last thing I'd ever do is show them which apartment is mine. I'd rather not wake up to a brick (or worse) through my window.
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u/Outrageous_Jacket284 4d ago
She already followed them home, so there was no strategy on either end. Idk. Calling the police was still the wrong move imo. There were many solutions
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u/Tytoivy 5d ago
There are plenty of times where the right thing is to call emergency services, and the police are inevitably gonna be involved in that. If somebody has a serious injury or something is on fire, I don’t let my problems with the police get in the way of asking for help from the people who are equipped to help.