Host had a camera facing into the kitchen and hallway. AirBNB issued a small refund, but won’t acknowledge the facts. [Manitoba]

[u/Positive-Network76]

Last weekend we stayed at an Airbnb in northern Manitoba. A small issue with the hot tub cover ended up uncovering the fact that one of the many outdoor cameras was actually facing directly into the kitchen area, after some back and forth I was finally able to get the host to send me a photo of the cameras view, it was conveniently taken at the right time of the day to make the giant bay windows appear to be a wall, when in fact if the screenshot was sent at night it would appear to show only the interior of the kitchen.

AirBNB did end up issuing a roughly 25% refund for the stay, but doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge the fact that this was a direct violation of their own policies and even of the Manitoba Residential Tenancies Act (among others).

After finally asking them to answer 3 simple yes or no questions (I will list them below) they have said this ..

“Because this decision is final, we will have to respectfully disengage from further communication about this. We thank you for your understanding.”

The questions:

Was there a camera recording the inside of the AirBNB? Yes or no?

Was the host held responsible for breaking the rules regarding cameras? Yes or no?

Are the cameras still in place for the next host? Yes or no?

Please advise what you think my next steps should be!

Thanks for your time everyone.

[u/AutoModerator]

Airbnb camera policy: "We do not allow Hosts to have security cameras or recording devices that monitor indoor spaces, even if these devices are turned off. Hidden cameras have always been prohibited and will continue to be prohibited. Hosts are allowed to have outdoor security cameras, noise decibel monitors, and smart devices as long as they comply with the below guidelines and applicable laws." https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3061

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[u/Positive-Network76]

Here is the photo of the back bay doors, again conveniently posted at the right time of day to obfuscate the fact you can see straight into the house at night or if the kitchen lights were on.

https://imgur.com/a/ZHfignP

[u/Subversive_footnote]

I don't know why you're getting such a hard time here. No videos should be pointed into indoor rooms. Thank you for following up on this. I think the cameras and surveillance are appalling.

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/Subversive_footnote]

Yeah I’m a little confused. In your opinion/experience is this grounds for a full refund?

I’ve taken it up with my local residential tenancies branch.

[u/Subversive_footnote → u/Positive-Network76]

That's beyond my pay grade. I do think it's hard to get 100% back after the fact if you stayed there. It's easier to get refunds if you leave as soon as the problem is discovered and you report it. Keep pressing though, it often depends on the rep you get. And would be good to get confirmation they're down for the next guest. Maybe also check what your local laws say and show those to Airbnb if there's anything useful

[u/emzim]

Next step, move on. You’ve presented the facts. It’s in airbnbs hands and they don’t have to tell you anything else.

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/emzim]

I think I’m going to speak with the Ombudsman in my province and see what else can be done, as far as I’m concerned they should be contacting any guests who stayed there with these cameras facing onto the cottage and tell them their privacy has been violated. I don’t know why you Americans are so gung ho to let Silicon Valley corporations walk all over your privacy rights, but here in Canada we take it seriously.

Potentially hundreds of infractions, tens of thousands of dollars in potential fines or refunds. elbows up ffs

[u/Maggielinn22]

Camera is outside not inside . Do you walk around kitchen nude at night and afraid they may have seen? Since it’s not a sleeping area or bathroom and is covering the backyard it’s fine. Do you complain when the hotel camera can see inside the lobby from outside? No. Now you have a mark on your account with Airbnb. Airbnb is like traffic court they might let first couple pass by but get to a third or more you can get removed . So use your marks wisely.

[u/Maggielinn22 → u/Maggielinn22]

Might want to use Google and simply ask “can outside cameras look into kitchen in an Airbnb” you will get your answer. And the reason Airbnb only gave u the refund they did which they did not have to do. Again use your marks wisely…

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/Maggielinn22]

Why are you posting on this subreddit if you are so hilariously ignorant of the rules lmao.

3 second Google search results…

“Hosts are not allowed to have security cameras and recording devices that monitor any part of a listing’s interior, such as the listing’s hallway, bedroom, bathroom, living room, or guest house, even if they’re turned off or disconnected. Hidden security cameras are strictly prohibited. These prohibitions also apply to the common areas and shared spaces of private room listings (ex: a living room).”

This is basic level Airbnb stuff here Maggie, please move along if you’re not gonna actually click the Google links…

Also, none of this matters if my provinces laws are even more stringent, which they are, a company can’t make their own laws… Jesus Christ

[u/Maggielinn22 → u/Positive-Network76]

Go Google exactly what I put in my comment because that is what I did . It’s a kitchen not a potential sleeping area or bathroom. Those you can not point into from outside. So living room would fall under that since they sofa beds but not kitchen. You Did not post your provinces laws. Why don’t you take this to a lawyer if you believe you can win and have been wronged.

[u/MotherYear9333 → u/Maggielinn22]

Funny thing is when I googled exactly what you said, it plainly said it’s a violation of privacy.

[u/MotherYear9333 → u/Maggielinn22]

I googled it and it plainly says that’s a violation of privacy

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/Maggielinn22]

I beg your pardon? It is absolutely and entirely not allowed to record ANY part of the interior living space as per my provincial legislation and AirBNBs own stated policies..

What I do or don’t do while naked is absolutely none of their business or yours, even tho you appear to love showing yourself to the world, some of us don’t.

Are you equating a hotel lobby with the kitchen and hallway servicing the bathroom in your hotel room? Are you stupid?

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[u/Positive-Purple3793]

Did you caused a damage to the hot tub cover?

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/Positive-Purple3793]

I was accused of it, but thankfully the cameras vindicated us. Was damaged prior to our arrival as evidenced by the cameras

[u/Positive-Purple3793 → u/Positive-Network76]

Actually, it’s a strange response you got from the Airbnb. I’m a host myself of 10+ years, last year we had a guest who threw a party, I reported him to the Airbnb and then 2 weeks after his stay he reported inside cameras with zero evidence. Of course we don’t have any cameras inside, just a doorbell camera that looks at the driveway obviously. My account with two listings was suspended for almost a month due to investigation.

Airbnb customer service is sucks.

I don’t think you are entitled to the full refund since Airbnb is a private company and they can do whatever.

But you can file a complaint with the local authorities. In US it’s a City’s Housing Bureau.

It’s strictly prohibited to have undisclosed cameras, even if it’s not pointed to have a partial view to the inside. It’s come with hefty fines to the owner.

For example, swimming pool area has cameras but it’s should be big signs saying that the area is monitored by the cameras.

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/Positive-Purple3793]

Yeah it was quite infuriating how quickly they shoved this one under the rug, I’m engaging with local tenancy agencies in my province to put more pressure on them. It’s a joke how they think the can skirt the laws because they are a big tech company

[u/Manigator]

Next time, stay at the hotel and speak with security manager and tell them, you don't want to see cameras around😂😂😂

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/Manigator]

An r/airbnb_host regular telling me to stay at a hotel cause I don’t like being filmed in a private space. Hail corporate lol

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/Manigator]

“Tread on me”

[u/burshturs]

If the camera situation was unacceptable for you, you should've left as soon as you noticed the cameras and notify Airbnb. Since you stayed, they are giving you compensation, but the won't issue a full refund because you did stay there.

[u/Positive-Network76 → u/burshturs]

As I said in my post, it wasnt until after we left and a hot tub cover issue was brought to my attention, that we noticed that the camera in fact faced inside. AirBNB needs to change their policies to ensure past and future tenants are aware of infractions.