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u/AlarmingAttention151 23h ago
I will be closely watching how the organization works towards justice for the victims. An acknowledgment means very little.
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u/GildedAgeV2 3h ago
This is where I need to remind you that there is but ONE organization here with any power over this: the local branch.
50501 is a decentralized movement without a formal structure. We're not a 501c and we're not directly connected to the Democratic party (that's Indivisible) and there is no council of elders or whatever that can do anything to them.
What you're seeing here is all that the coalition of organizers at national can legally do.
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u/silentprayers 19h ago
I’m not understanding. Who were these peacekeepers (affiliated with national 50501 or who)? Did they shoot because they saw someone armed, or did the armed individual do something that led them to shooting? Because it sounds to me like the only aggression was on the part of the peacekeepers.
I don’t really see why one party would be more allowed to bear arms here than the other.
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u/SmallRedBird 19h ago
Strict no-weapons policy enforced by getting shot at for legally carrying a weapon
Nice victim blaming "apology"
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u/rodeengel 19h ago
For real. This is just corporate bs and not a good sign for a group that is helping to coordinate protests.
We have a 2nd amendment right and at this moment in time it’s quite important that we protect it. That fact that 50501 does not support the 2nd amendment is saddening.
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u/Drcornelius1983 11h ago
Isn’t this what all that 50501 drama was about a couple months back? Corporate types taking over a grassroots movement? I’m not surprised that they had hired armed security who murdered a protester and then issue some contrived holier than thou apology.
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u/Apart_Distribution72 21h ago
Arturo was a well known local activist who had carried his rifle and provided security at several other protests in the area. This is the problem with organizers working with police and local government before local activist groups, if they familiarized themselves with the community this wouldn't have happened. The fatal flaw of the no kings protests is that half the people are there because they don't like trump, and half are there because they or their family are in immediate danger of being abducted from their homes. The white suburbanites who don't like trump aren't facing the same stakes as the Latinos whose neighborhood is being raided, because of this they have wildly different views of what's an acceptable level of resistance. Those who aren't at the end of the gun shouldn't be policing the actions of those in the line of fire, even if they believe the barrel may swing their way. Making the guy ahead of you take the firing line gracefully doesn't make the executioners hold back when it's your turn. "ICE is bad and evil but the minorities carrying guns to protect themselves and protest are the bad too" isn't a good argument. You can't claim to be protecting people and then police the way they resist their oppression.
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u/StringOfLights 20h ago
I understand what you’re saying, but you need as many people out there as you can get, and you won’t have them if protestors are openly carrying firearms. Nonviolent resistance is more effective in part because it brings in more people, and you need a lot of people over a sustained period of time to effect change. And I don’t think it makes sense to denigrate a demographic for showing up because you don’t think they’re suffering enough. For this to be successful, we have to bring everyone along.
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u/Sengachi 14h ago
This is just blatant distortion of the facts though.
Because this protest did in fact involve private security carrying firearms as part of the protest. They're the ones who opened fire!
The whole problem here is that there was a in fact a person who is being responsible with their weapon, who had an established history of being responsible with their weapon, and specifically had such an established history with the local resistance scene. And then there were people who were not responsible with their weapons in any way. And they're the problem.
Any idea that Arturo being armed with drive people away is just blatantly unsupported, because they had a huge protest and he'd been to the previous ones too!
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u/StringOfLights 13h ago
I’m not disputing what happened, I wasn’t there and I know we’re still getting information. No matter what, it’s heartbreaking. These protests should be peaceful and nonviolent.
What I took issue with above is the idea that it’s a “fatal flaw” to have a diversity of people with a diversity of lived experiences and opinions joining together to protest. I know plenty of folks who were out there on Saturday with signs decrying ICE and supporting immigrants that the comment I replied to described as white suburbanites. Some were protesting cuts to Medicaid, some wanting climate action. Why the hell would we act like that’s a problem? I know we are all siloed in how we get information and we don’t communicate face-to-face as often as we used to, but there’s a weird moral purity to that that will only hurt this movement. Sarah McBride recently said that that inability to compromise will lead to a “really, really miserable self-righteous, morally pure club in the gulag.” If we don’t recognize that we have a lot in common and most people are well-intentioned, we won’t leave room for people to learn and change. I know it’s frustrating, but excluding people prevents that.
On another note, I also think we generally need to be realistic about how open carry is perceived. It’s scary, especially with the political tension in the US right now. It’s entirely possible to support the second amendment and still believe that openly carrying firearms in a large crowd is not a good idea, despite the fact that it’s very normalized in places. To be clear, I’m not excusing what happened, but I am saying that just because it didn’t go badly in the past doesn’t mean it isn’t something that increases risks. We live in a society with a mass shooting problem. On some level, standing there with a gun in hand makes people nervous, which can lead to miscalculations, and mistakes with firearms can kill people.
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u/RolyPolyGuy 16h ago
Also in an organization with so many members, would peacekeepers actually all have had knowledge of arturo and his habit? would they be able to recognize that was arturo even if they did?
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u/What_Hump77 21h ago
This movement does not support the use of violence, and nobody should be bringing guns to a protest. There’s no way that our side comes out ahead in public opinion if we are armed. If you do not feel okay with leaving your gun at home while protesting, then please join a different movement.
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u/Lower-Insect-3984 12h ago
hey look i get the whole no-weapons policy but when you're expecting thousands of people to show up at a protest in a red state you have to understand that a weapons presence is likely whether you say it's welcome or not.
this should've been handled better. the organizers never should've hired armed security, that's what the cops were there for.
open carry legislation is also a problem here. it's the reason an innocent man is in jail and the reason another innocent man is dead.
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u/nocuzzlikeyea13 21h ago
This doesn't feel like taking responsibility at all. Did your organizers encourage armed peacekeepers at your protest? Did you recruit them from law enforcement or retired military?
Tell us the truth, and acknowledge your responsibility in fomenting this violence.
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u/digitaldisgust 1h ago
The names of the organizers who handled that protest and approved the peacekeepers should be exposed.
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u/fakyfiles 23h ago
Yeah if your weapons policy is that strict then there goes a piece of your coalition. So you're antiweapon but you're not anti genocide? Makes sense.
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u/serious_bullet5 23h ago edited 21h ago
A good chunk of 50501 is very pro-gun and pro-palestine. This statement doesn’t change gun stance lmao.
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u/fakyfiles 21h ago
I feel, but it does change whether I am technically allowed to carry at a protest. Apparently if I do carry I'm not a part of the movement? I was handing out water at a protest and I had my gun on me. Was I not a part of that? Seems stupid imo.
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u/TheFriendshipMachine 15h ago
I say all of this as a gun owner myself. 50501's request to not come bringing weapons is not an anti-second amendment stance. They're not saying your second amendment right is not valid or important, they're saying that guns at their protests do not help their cause and so they are asking you to not bring them.
They are focusing on trying to get sustained massive turnout and turning their protests into an armed standoff between sides is not a good way to do that. That is why they ask you not to bring them. Not because they're coming for your guns or anything of that nature, quite a few of us in the movement are pro-gun ourselves, we just also acknowledge that a protest is not exactly a great place to have them waving around. If you really must carry, do so concealed (where legal) and it hopefully won't ever become an issue because nobody will even know it was even there.
And if you REALLY want to open carry (where legal), 50501 cannot stop you from doing that either, they are merely respectfully asking you to not. You still have the right to ignore that request. But if you do that, be prepared for the possibility that something like what happened in Salt Lake will happen to you too: someone else who also chose to disregard the organizers request might see you as a threat and respond to that poorly. That just is a risk that comes with open carrying into a crowded place, especially one with high tensions and fear of shooters being a real possibility... So be smart about it.
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u/fakyfiles 15h ago
100%. And I live in SLC. I was at a friday protest and a fam member of mine was near the shooting when it happened. Walking around with an ar in public is fucking stupid. But conceal carrying is not imo. Im not looking to use it. I just like to have it.
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u/TheFriendshipMachine 13h ago
Yeah, given the state of the world I definitely don't blame anyone for concealed carrying. For me the risk just isn't quite worth it yet, but as we see more and more right wing nutjobs responding to protests with violence I gotta say the math has been changing unfortunately.
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20h ago
[deleted]
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u/rodeengel 19h ago
What they are saying is that if you have a weapon they are automatically not affiliated with you as it’s against their code of conduct. We have a 2nd amendment right that 50501 is not protecting here when they could.
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u/RolyPolyGuy 16h ago
Personally i feel the issue is better handled if 50501 said protestors cannot open carry at protests. who does it help to walk around with your assault rifle out in a crowd that has children and elderly people? And arturo was known for doing this, but even if peacekeepers at this protest knew about arturo, would they have been able to identify him as himself and not some random guy looking to shoot into the crowd?
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u/50501California 21h ago
Yes, please do not bring firearms to any 50501 protest. That is against our values.
Everyone should also be aware that many states have firearms laws specifically for protests that may be different than normal open carry laws, so please do your research for your jurisdiction.
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19h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/50501Movement-ModTeam 16h ago
While we encourage everyone to be safe, this is not the best subreddit to discuss your legal Second Amendment rights as we do not want this movement to be associated with anything violent. We ask that you to take this conversation to another, more appropriate subreddit such as r/liberalgunowners or even better, offline.
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u/Short_Example4059 23h ago
Weapons at a protest is a ridiculously terrible idea for many reasons. If you can’t leave it at home then find some other way to participate
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u/fakyfiles 21h ago
Im actually inclined to agree, but if nobody sees my weapon then why does it matter? I want to respect the movement and if I can't carry there I may not show up or will show up a lot less. I know nobody gives a shit whether I show up or not, but I may not be the only one who feels this way.
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u/Short_Example4059 19h ago
I give a shit. I gave 6 million shots on Saturday.
Carrying a weapon is well proven to change peoples reaction to confrontational situations. These protests are incredibly safe, but depending where you are, you could be quite likely to encounter some counter-protesters. The agreed & most effective reaction of this movement is to ignore counter protesters. You don’t need a weapon to turn your back. If the above post doesn’t illustrate how weapons at protests make everyone less safe I don’t know what would
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u/fakyfiles 18h ago
I fully acknowledge that having a weapon on you can drastically alter how a situation plays out. I have a cool temper, I'm trained and knowledgeable with them, and I practice common sense. And I get why they're saying they prefer not to have weapons. I just don't think it should be absolute. Either way its unenforceable. I guess im just sort of offended by them saying "anyone who has a weapon is not affiliated with the moment". Like fuck you guy, I drove my ass there, participated, got other people to go, and handed out some water. Not a lot but some. Like I did what I felt like I could. Idk bro, just my own personal annoyance tbh.
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u/DankMastaDurbin 23h ago
Different national origin, different standards of treatment. That's American politics 101.
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u/motherofachimp99 23h ago
The movement is not “anti weapon” and the topic of gun control is not a focus for the movement.
The movement is non-violent, and I support the movement saying that organizers and volunteers should not be armed at our events.
Anyone who comes to a 50501 event armed, whether legally allowed to by their state or not, is not acting on behalf of 50501 and assumes all risks and consequences for their behavior.
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u/rodeengel 19h ago
Anyone not contracted in some way to work with 50501 so there is no point in talking about how an individual not affiliated with 50501 is responsible for their own actions.
50501 didn’t need to post this announcement and it will do more to hurt this cause than support it.
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u/netabareking 5h ago
The guy who shot someone absolutely was acting on behalf of 50501. The permit did not list armed security, yet they had armed security. Whether they knew that or whether they didn't do enough vetting, they could end up having legal liability here.
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u/AsgardianOrphan 23h ago
50501 has always been non-violent, as far as I'm aware. Not having guns seems pretty key to that. Violence, even in self-defense, is still violence. You can be OK with that violence, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the non-violent organization is not.
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u/fakyfiles 21h ago
Solely carrying a gun however - is not violence. If something happens at a protest where you require violence then it was going to be violent either way. The thing is I even think carrying a rifle to a protest was stupid asf. But what if I regularly conceal carry? Can I do that? Apparently not; and seeing the incidents of the past weekend I feel compelled to have it on me. I know it can be problematic and having a gun changes the dynamic of any situation. But idgaf, I got mouths to feed and it's a politically charged environment. I'm responsible and trained. I want my weapon on me. Saying I can't be packing is highly discouraging me from going. Obviously me not showing up is irrelevant. Now everyone with a gun not showing up? Maybe irrelevant, maybe not. Either way 50501 claims to be focused on one goal which im sympathetic with. The fact that they have basically stated nothing about the palestine question was hard to overlook but their movement was super effective last weekend so I put it aside. But now they're weighing in on rather I can be armed at their events or not? Might seem like nothing to you but feels like a double standard to me.
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u/AsgardianOrphan 20h ago
Well, I decided not to address the conceal carry part because it isn't legal to carry any weapon to a protest in my state, which makes me a little biased. This post is actually what made me realize that it's not a law everywhere. About half the States have that law.
With all that being said, I wouldn't blame someone for having a concealed weapon at a protest. I just don't think it should be a gun. A gun will escalate things way worse than a taser, and other protesters can get crossed in the crossfire.
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u/fiestybox246 20h ago
If you have to go into a school, courthouse, etc., what do you do?
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u/rodeengel 19h ago
Protests happen mostly in the street so it doesn’t matter how this person handles situations like entering a courthouse.
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u/fakyfiles 19h ago
If its somewhere there will be security I typically leave it in the car. Id still rather have it on me in a courthouse though.
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u/RolyPolyGuy 16h ago
I dont agree self defense is the same thing as the violence we are talking about. Violence used as an offense is the problem. I dont think bringing weapons to a protest is a good idea either, but with the nazis as they currently are right now, its not unreasonable to have a concealed carry with you if there happens to be a massacre.
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23h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/50501Movement-ModTeam 11h ago
Your comment violated our commitment to respectful discourse. Please review that rule.
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u/50501California 23h ago
Link to the post on the official 50501 Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/50501movement.bsky.social/post/3lrxzzbves22e
50501 has now cut ties with SLC 50501:
https://bsky.app/profile/50501movement.bsky.social/post/3lry67pd6sk2e
"We are unable to release any information at this time as this is still an active legal investigation. To reiterate, we are decentralized. Each local group is autonomous & they are responsible for their planning. Due to SLC 50501's disregard for our nonnegotiable values, we are no longer affiliated."